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House with not approved second floor,

 5     0
Hi folks,
Iam a foriegner who does not speak norwegian well. Please forgive me  as Iam writing in English, but I need your suggestions.

I made a bid for a house with a hybel. At the time of visning, i asked the broker if everything was okay. he said that the hybel is not approved for renting and the house has a middle time permission.  But he did say that the hybel is rented out and some body is living there.
So far so good, i made the bid and the bid was accepted. After that before signing the contract, a freind of mine who read through the prospectus told me that the house had the permission only for the ground floor and that the hybel had no approval even to live.
I felt cheated as it would amount to me buying something that was not legal and hence I said that I will not sign the contract before everything is approved.
The broker said that since the bid is accepted, I have to buy and that he had said about this in prospectus , although in the same prospectus it is mentioned about the possibility to rent and currently the house is getting a rent as well.
Iam really at my wits end now as to what i should do in case i dont get an approval for the hybel. The broker says you can sign the contract and then claim from the insurance, Iam not sure if that is the correct way to go.

   #1
 1,093     Skjetten     0
Welcome to the Norwegian way of doing things ;)

What do you mean by middle time permission ?
Signatur
  (trådstarter)
   #2
 5     0
Hi ,
It seems that houses have two kinds of permission. One called middler tids tillatelse that is given during construction of the house and then the ferdig attest given after recomendations of the commune. In my case, the house has only middlertids tillatelse for ground floor and no approval for the first floor. Hence my dilema as to if iam shopping something that is not legal to live, it was hidden  and further camoflauged by including the value of this portion in the sales price.
Ebe
   #3
 4,452     Vestlandet     0
Is it only the hybel in the first floor? Or are there parts of the main area as well? The general rule in Norway is that the seller have to give all information about the house without hiding something. BUT the buyer also have to "investigate" the house. Investigate in the meaning that the buyer must look at everything that is possible to find out without tearing the house apart. The papers for the house is normaly something the buyer have to look into, because all papers in norway are availible for everyone.

There are normaly no way back when a bid is given and accepted, then by law you have to sign and buy it. But give the broker all points you mean is wrong, in written form. There is a time limit for complaints. Normaly this kind of cases is delt with by lawyers, it's kinda complicated for the common man.

The main issue here is if the seller/broker have given wrong information, or holding back information, that would have lead you to give a lower bid og not bid at all.

Normaly it's no big deal if the house only got a midlertidig brukstillatelse. My house has that too, and it was build in '89. Smile
Signatur
   #4
 3,412     Akershus     0
The "middle time permission" must be a Midlertidig brukstillatelse.

My experience is that when a house is sold, a copy of Midlertidig brukstillatelse is attached to the Prospectus.  In any case, this Midlertidig Brukstillatelse is available from the municipality (Kommune). 

My understanding is that in your case, the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse was indeed included in the Prospectus, and you had access to the Prospectus before making your bid.  In that case, your bid is binding, and you have bought a property with known limitations. 

Regulations are usually made with a good intention.  Have a look at the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse.  It will say what is wrong or missing.  It is probably a good idea to do something about it.  On the other hand, many people are able to live long, happy lives with only a Midlertidig Brukstillatelse (as opposed to a Ferdigattest). 

Signatur
  (trådstarter)
   #5
 5     0
Thanks Erik and Karsten for your insight.
Only the hybel in the first house is not approved.

@Karsten,
yes it is called middlertids brukes tillatelse. As you said, the prospectus did contain some points. I was assured by the megler and seller that everything has been taken care and everything was legal and I had the bid only after that.

In fact, I have an sms from the seller where in he says that the ferdig atteste will be in place before the contract is filled out. Iam told that the broker has contacted the kommune for the approval and with the kommune it takes time before an answer is obtained  which means that there is a likely hood that the take over date may be violated, have hardly 3 weeks left, and worried that if the money is not within that date, I could be penalised
Also not sure, if the bank would have any issues in case the attest is not in place.

It is a bit strange that the middlertid tillatelse has no expiry. The house was built in 1996 and still is on the same permission.
   #6
 3,412     Akershus     0
There are regions where most houses don't have a Ferdigattest, and many don't even have a Midlertidig Brukstillatelse.  So if the house only has a Midlertidig Brukstillatelse, it is in itself not a big deal.  Both I and my nearest neighbor only have a Midlertidig Brukstillatelse; I have had mine for 11 years and the neighbor has had his for more than 20 years.  Our banks don't have a problem with this.

It is more interesting what issues have been raised in the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse.  From your description, it sounds as if the issues can be or have been solved, and only the paperwork is missing.  If so, then everything sounds great. 

If your bank is hesitant because of the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse, they should have a copy so they can see the specifics.  The type of actual problems is more important than the paperwork with the Ferdigattest. 

I agree that it is surprising that the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse normally does not have an expiry date.  There is a hidden financial penalty included though: If the issues in the Midlertidig Brukstillatelse are not taken care of within a certain time limit and a Ferdigattest is applied for, then when somebody later tries to fix it and apply for a Ferdigattest, a new Byggesaksgebyr will have to be paid.  This is typically some tens of thousands of kroner. 

You should sleep well at night!  This doesn't sound like major trouble!  Smile
Signatur
  (trådstarter)
   #7
 5     0
Hi folks ,
Glad to inform you , I have got the ferdig attest for the house.
Had to pay 2500 kroners for that, but that is okay.

Also have now found out that the winter hage in the house and the utebord in the house dont have  an approval from the commune. Broker says that I can contact forsikring company but then the company says that they do not handle claims less than 100,000 kroners.
Not sure what to do on this.

Also the housing plan is different from the one that is given on the ferdig attest. The house was sold showing a kitchen and  bathroom in the second floor but then the plan does not have it at all , any suggesstions as to how i should deal with this issue, the original plan was not shown to me in the prospectus

Appreciating your inputs on the same,

   #8
 3,412     Akershus     0
So when you bought the house, the prospectus had a drawing showing a kitchen and bathroom in the second floor, but they don't exist?  You have an obligation to check some obvious things yourself ("Undersøkelsesplikt").  If the kitchen and bathroom are missing, and you were given a chance to come and see for yourself if they existed or not, then you have knowingly bought a house without a kitchen and bathroom on the second floor, and there is nothing more to discuss. 

If you want some of the money back after buying a house because the house wasn't as expected, there must be something "significantly wrong" with the house, and it can't have been obvious to a normal person.  One common interpretation of "significantly wrong" in court cases is that a claim corresponds to at least 5 to 10 percent of the value of the house.  The statement from the insurance company about not caring for claims less than 100 000 kroner should be seen in this context. 

Other bidders may have been scared about the lack of Ferdigattest, and they may have been scared by the lack of the kitchen and the bathroom, so it may very well that these issues have had an impact on the price you ended up paying.  So sleep well, knowing that you simply bought an OK house without an extra kitchen and bathroom, at a price that reflects that there isn't any extra kitchen and bathroom.  Worse things can happen in life! 

Besides, other bidders may have been scared by the lack of a Ferdigattest and "deducted" more than the 2500 kroner you paid for your Ferdigattest when they set their limits for their highest bid, so on this issue you have probably saved some tens of thousands of kroner :-)

2500 kroner for a Ferdigattest, that was surprisingly cheap!  Congratulations!

About the winter garden and the "utebord", is anybody complaining about the lack of an approval?  Are they dangerous in any way?  Are they in serious breach against some regulations?  If the answer is "no" to all these three questions, then please find something nice and cold to drink, go outdoors, sit down, and enjoy life!  :-) 

Many Norwegians and flexible and tolerant, sometimes to a degree that borders to being naive.  An "average" Norwegian, if such a person exists, is quite different from an "average" person from the north of Germany, where everything must be in order and all details must be correct.  Norway is not the place for "German order", "Swiss Precision" or "Preussian discipline" :-) 

It sounds to me as if you have been slightly lucky :-)

Signatur